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A Female Rumi

with Chelan Harkin

I’m excited to introduce to you a little-known poet, whose work deserves wide attention. (I’ve been sharing her writing with all of my friends!) She reminds me of a modern day Rumi or Hafiz. –And if you haven’t read Rumi or Hafiz, start there, and then pick up the work of our guest, Chelan Harkin!


In her writing and in her life, Chelan has two goals: to bring acceptance, belonging, and worth to all of those uncomfortable emotions we’ve been taught to hate; and to make room for our hearts in a heady world, and allowing our heartful wisdom, truth and inspiration to flow.


She has a pretty wild publishing story, filled with what she calls “prayer experiments gone right.” Her first two books are called Susceptible to Light and Let Us Dance! The Stumble and Whirl with The Beloved. Her third book, Wild Grace, is on the way.


Today we’re going to discuss her poetry (and let her read some–it’s wild magic!!), how to accept our occasional asshole-ness, what it was like growing up Baha’i in a small town, and what all of that has to do with mysticism.


Learn more about Chelan at www.chelanharkin.com.



 

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:26:06

Kelly Deutsch

Hi everyone. Welcome to the Spiritual Wanderlust podcast. I'm your host, Kelly Deutsch, and today I am excited to introduce you to a little known poet whose work deserves wide attention. I've been sharing her writings with all of my friends. She reminds me of a modern day Rumi or Hafiz, and if you haven't read them, Rumi dresses, start there and then go pick up the work of our guest today.


00:00:26:07 - 00:00:52:19

Kelly Deutsch

Shalane Hakin Shalane has two goals in her life and in her writing that of bringing acceptance, belonging and worth to all of our uncomfortable emotions that we've been taught to hate and to make room for our hearts in a very heavy world, and allowing that heartful wisdom and truth and inspiration to flow. Shalane has a pretty wild publishing story filled with what she calls prayer experiments gone right.


00:00:52:22 - 00:01:12:22

Kelly Deutsch

Her first two books are called Susceptible to Light and Let Us Dance The Stumble and Whirl with the beloved. Her third book, wild Grace, is on the way. Today we're going to read and discuss some of her poetry. Talk about difficult emotions and what all of that has to do with mysticism. So, Shalane, thank you for joining us.


00:01:12:25 - 00:01:14:19

Kelly Deutsch

We're so glad to have you.


00:01:14:21 - 00:01:17:27

Chelan Harkin

Thank you so much, Kelly. It's a true pleasure and joy to be here.


00:01:18:03 - 00:01:35:15

Kelly Deutsch

Yeah, well, I've been excited to talk. First of all, not many of us have met mystic poets, let alone ones in the wisdom stream of Rumi and Hafiz. So how is a mystic poet made? Like, how would you describe your spiritual background?


00:01:35:17 - 00:02:05:18

Chelan Harkin

Oh, my poetic background particularly. Sure. It's a. That's a good question. Well, and it gets at this question of what the heck does mysticism even mean? Right? So and maybe people have varying definitions, but for me, what it means is, is keeping my heart open and on clogged sort of with And in my experience, the way that we keep our hearts clogged.


00:02:05:24 - 00:02:09:23

Chelan Harkin

So that's not a very poetic word and it's got to be something better.


00:02:09:23 - 00:02:11:16

Kelly Deutsch

But it's this rule, though.


00:02:11:19 - 00:02:12:05

Chelan Harkin

I mean, you.


00:02:12:05 - 00:02:13:08

Kelly Deutsch

Feel that word.


00:02:13:10 - 00:02:47:28

Chelan Harkin

Gross stew is is we do that by eye. In my experience, through rejecting and repressing are are uncomfortable emotions that are really it's they're just energy that wants to flow. And in my experience really actually teach us and nourish us and help us grow in this wisdom. And so a lot of my work has been reframing relationship with with those things to basically just keep keep channels open, to receive the information that that wants to and wants to flow through me.


00:02:48:00 - 00:03:12:18

Chelan Harkin

So it's it has like a very humble actually, quality to it. And it's really special though, because I find that really the more I'm able to accept just the, the, the deep, the deepest, most, you know, embarrassing human humble struggles inside of my heart, the more, this. You know what I guess I could call this wild grace flows and my poetry deepens.


00:03:12:18 - 00:03:22:17

Chelan Harkin

And, you know, more insight is given. So that is sort of in a nutshell my, my life practice. Yeah.


00:03:22:19 - 00:03:29:03

Kelly Deutsch

How would you describe that. Like is that a spiritual practice for you or how would you say it overlaps with your spirituality.


00:03:30:23 - 00:04:02:12

Chelan Harkin

Yeah I would say it very much is my spirituality and I, I, I love thinking of spiritual practice as very, very holistic and, and I actually feel that it has to be to really to really work. And we can have kind of if we have ideological concepts or if we have, you know, perspectives about the world that really help our, our hearts open and help us be more honest and truthful and that will, you know, benefit our mental, emotional health and all of that.


00:04:02:12 - 00:04:11:00

Chelan Harkin

And so, so yeah, I feel like that that really is a core piece of my of my spiritual life and practice.


00:04:11:02 - 00:04:31:08

Kelly Deutsch

Yes, I love that. It's I think it's so easy to I mean there's certainly a trend now to embrace our bodies and live in a more embodied way. But I think so many of us don't really know what that means. You know we're trying we're like, okay, yoga or maybe focus on my breathing or something. You know, it's like embodiment is so much more than that.


00:04:31:08 - 00:04:40:27

Kelly Deutsch

Like being able to embrace the whole of who you are, especially all of those sensations and emotions and reactions and all those things that come with it.


00:04:41:00 - 00:04:43:27

Chelan Harkin

That it beautifully. Yes, yes, yes.


00:04:44:00 - 00:05:06:22

Kelly Deutsch

I'm curious. It's it's one thing, to embrace, I don't know, like, okay, I have anger toward, you know, how the political world is right now or, you know, something kind of on a grand scale. But I'm wondering how you do that kind of in the nitty gritty daily stuff. You're you're a mother, right? You have two kids.


00:05:06:25 - 00:05:08:05

Chelan Harkin

Yeah, yeah.


00:05:08:07 - 00:05:23:23

Kelly Deutsch

What does that look like as a mom of two kids, when it's like, sometimes you have sleepless nights and sometimes kids are screaming and sometimes you're like, oh my gosh, I can't even the analysts. How do you accept all the uncomfortable in the midst of that? Can you share an example?


00:05:23:25 - 00:05:47:20

Chelan Harkin

Oh, I what a good question. Yeah. And of course, you know, often I don't and I just am an asshole to my kids and then you know and then I have to apologize and, and tell them what was going on, you know, in me and why I acted that way. But, but yeah, really, I feel like just being doing my best to come back because with any practice.


00:05:47:20 - 00:06:07:15

Chelan Harkin

Right, we just the practices are the things we come back to. It's not the things that we always are perfect at or constantly remember are constantly aligned with. It's the things that we're committed to, to just coming back to. And so yeah, actually and I feel like mothering, this, this relationship with my kids is also just it's a it's my primary.


00:06:07:15 - 00:06:26:25

Chelan Harkin

You could say it's like my primary temple for my spiritual practice, which is just trying to be, humble and truthful with them about what's what. My challenges. Not not in a way that's, you know, developmentally inappropriate for them, but just say, like, you know, I really want to play with you right now. That means so much.


00:06:26:25 - 00:06:57:21

Chelan Harkin

Me, I care about you. But I'm really struggling today with some sadness, and I need a time to take care of my feelings. You want to just sit by me? Things like that. But it's tough because that's kind of. I find it's confrontational for myself with my own models of how parents are supposed to be, which is we're supposed to know we're supposed to always have our, you know, shit together, and we're supposed to be, you know, it's it's a power over model.


00:06:57:24 - 00:07:11:27

Chelan Harkin

So it's it's, it's sort of an experiment in this way that I'm trying to trying to craft with my my sweet kids. But it seems to work. But the findings are pretty good. so.


00:07:12:00 - 00:07:43:25

Kelly Deutsch

Yeah, I love that. I, so we have this woman Mystic School going on this year. So I've been reading a lot of, like, female mystics and such, and I, I love how much mystics, particularly women, tend to turn spirituality on its head like that, because I think so often the, the images that we have, especially in more kind of male models of, of spirituality, is just ascent upwards, you know, it's like the ladder of perfection and climbing the mountain to divine union or, you know, whatever it is.


00:07:43:27 - 00:08:07:11

Kelly Deutsch

And I feel like so many of the women are like, no, I like. And I kind of wonder if it does have to do with like the fact how like messy we know that our bodies are. And so life is messy when you have kids, when you just like, face the reality of the world, you're like, oh yeah, we're not going to look all perfect at the top of that mountain of, you know, divine union.


00:08:07:14 - 00:08:12:27

Kelly Deutsch

We're going to look like a big hot mess. I think that's that's how we do it.


00:08:12:29 - 00:08:50:12

Chelan Harkin

Doesn't that feel better? Like, gosh, you know, if I'm around someone who is like, you know, spiritually perfect or whatever or on the top of the mountain, and I'm far from the top of the mountain, I'm just going to feel probably bad about myself. But if I'm with someone who is just in a loving, you know, open, accepting space about the the human ongoing struggles along with, the beautiful human capacity to continue to understand new dimensions of self and love and, just feels more, yeah, more.


00:08:50:12 - 00:08:54:24

Kelly Deutsch

Human and more realistic, you know.


00:08:54:27 - 00:08:59:11

Chelan Harkin

More realistic. Exactly. Yeah. We're speaking the same language. Yeah.


00:08:59:11 - 00:09:23:15

Kelly Deutsch

Yes, yes. It's unfortunate that so many that traditionally people think of mystics as like someone cast in more marble, like on a pedestal somewhere, you know, like, oh, well, that's that's for them, you know, and I feel like it's almost like projecting. You know, we talk about projecting our shadows, but this is like projecting our light side, you know, like, oh, well, if Mother Teresa was that good and I can just be like, wow.


00:09:23:15 - 00:09:36:03

Kelly Deutsch

I mean, the Mother Teresa's of the world can do that. But I mean, clearly I can never be that heroic. It's like it's almost like, you know, it's an excuse for us just to be mediocre or not have to shine.


00:09:36:05 - 00:10:00:17

Chelan Harkin

That's so interesting. That was a big, Yeah, absolutely. And that was a big, kind of moment for me. I realized I'd kind of made this hierarchy with, well, with poets in, in mind and, the value that they could offer to the world. And, and we can do that with classic poets like Rumi as well.


00:10:00:17 - 00:10:30:17

Chelan Harkin

They do deserve tremendous, you know, honor and celebration. I don't think that they my feeling is that they wouldn't have wanted to to Iraqi experience, affect but to really just continue to crack open other hearts, and, and, and, and poetry to be able to, do its best to be a kindred of theirs, you know, and I don't know, I think there's so many ways that we, we make these hierarchies.


00:10:30:19 - 00:10:38:17

Chelan Harkin

And, and then it's empowering to as hell to do something to dismantle those. Anyway.


00:10:38:20 - 00:11:01:09

Kelly Deutsch

Yes, I totally agree. And I think that's true of so many. I mean, of any wisdom teacher worth their salt, you know, I mean, I was talking to somebody else the other day about, you know, they were like, Jesus wasn't about Jesus. He was about like pointing to divine union, you know? And so if we focus on, you know, just like and fixates or whether it's Rumi or Horses or whoever, you know, like we're like, oh my gosh, I want to be like them.


00:11:01:09 - 00:11:07:24

Kelly Deutsch

They're like, no, do do what I do. Like, do what I'm about. You know, not.


00:11:07:27 - 00:11:08:04

Chelan Harkin

It's.


00:11:08:05 - 00:11:09:24

Kelly Deutsch

Not me.


00:11:09:27 - 00:11:34:21

Chelan Harkin

Totally. Yeah. And there's, you know, and I find too, like, we really do ourselves a disservice when we reject these. Yeah. These the continual struggle of being a person because they're really when we can and, be on a path to being in, you know, more accepting relationship with those parts. There's just amazing gifts to, to receive. Yeah.


00:11:34:24 - 00:11:59:06

Chelan Harkin

So it's not like, I don't know, there's this idea of transcendence, which I feel like is kind of a spiritual jargon for fleeing to some degree. Like it's just human emotions or human experiences that just, I don't shouldn't be undone. And, but I feel like, I don't know, there's a, there's a limitation in that, in that, approach.


00:12:00:27 - 00:12:24:27

Kelly Deutsch

yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So I have like 16 questions I want to ask you. Let's tell me first. So obviously Rumi and Hafiz are big influences for you, and I'm curious how you discovered them. What role they've played in your life, and also just the broader umbrella of Sufism. Is that something that's an important part of your world, or how would you describe your relationship with it?


00:12:25:18 - 00:12:51:03

Chelan Harkin

thanks. Good question. So I the truth is I know very, very little about Sufism. I'd love I'd love to learn more. but I was exposed to Hafez poetry in a therapy session, actually, when I'm 17. And I felt, like therapy wasn't working for me, but I hadn't been exposed to other models that could do something to help me feel more, you know, comfortable in myself.


00:12:51:06 - 00:13:36:19

Chelan Harkin

And so I thought, I kind of thought their talk therapy was, you know, that was it. And so I was feeling a lot of despair about my own forward movement. And my therapist read me a half assed poem. And, and it was such an incredible moment in my life, really. It was like, first of all, somehow this little poem was like this master key that just, albeit momentarily unlocked all of these walls around my heart, that it felt so complex and impassable and gave me this experience of a conscious experience of like, oh, okay, actually, amidst all of these layers and complexes and whatnot, like, oh, here, here I am.


00:13:36:21 - 00:13:56:22

Chelan Harkin

So there was a moment of that which was so healing. But but also there was like, there's more or I whatever that poem is, I didn't know. I wasn't even familiar with the word mystic, but it just whatever that poem was, whatever that carried, like, this is what I meant. This is it was a death. It was like a destiny moment.


00:13:56:24 - 00:14:32:24

Chelan Harkin

What I'm meant to, to do. So that was a really, really powerful experience. And then, yeah, Hafez, primarily the poetry of the as rendered by Daniel Adams, he really helped me craft or not even craft. It really just unlocked the possibility of, of a new relationship with, with God. And there's so many implications to that when we can think of God, or just the universe or whatever we give authority to as something that can be loving and intimate and close, and it's like unconditionally accepting and loving and joyful.


00:14:32:28 - 00:14:40:06

Chelan Harkin

Yes, a lot of things on its head. And so, that really helped inspire me down that down that path.


00:14:40:08 - 00:14:49:16

Kelly Deutsch

Can I ask you to read your poem a centric God? I feel like that's like a perfect, perfect moment for for that poem.


00:14:49:18 - 00:15:20:20

Chelan Harkin

Oh my gosh. Okay. There we go. If you think the eccentric God who made the octopus is going to judge you for your sins, I'm afraid you've missed the mark. If you think this wild God that spins galaxies as a pastime cares to get fussy about your mistakes, or has ever made anything that wasn't born perfect and luminous, you might need to repent.


00:15:20:22 - 00:15:45:29

Chelan Harkin

If you can't yet admit how lovable and infinitely worthy the fullness of your human nature is. And if you think God wants to do anything but perpetual, pour an abundance of love gifts upon you. Well, my dear, your soul just might need to go to confession.


00:15:46:01 - 00:15:47:11

Kelly Deutsch

I love that one.


00:15:47:13 - 00:15:48:14

Chelan Harkin

Thank you.


00:15:48:19 - 00:16:15:13

Kelly Deutsch

Yes. And I, I think that's so just appropriate for this theme of of recognizing how much more vast the divine is than our preconceived notions or even just what we've been taught. You know, whether in Sunday school or just in the common culture of this kind of Zeus like god in the sky, you know, we're like, now let's let's leave him to the Greeks, you know, like there's actually there's something so much more profound.


00:16:15:20 - 00:16:28:16

Kelly Deutsch

And what really needs transformation is not not so much like all of these, like, imperfections that we sometimes obsess over, but our image of God and, how tender and intimate he is.


00:16:28:22 - 00:16:30:14

Chelan Harkin

Yes, absolutely.


00:16:30:18 - 00:16:37:02

Kelly Deutsch

Was that a transformation that happened for you or, you know, was God always a fairly loving image for you?


00:16:37:05 - 00:17:04:14

Chelan Harkin

Well, so I grew up in the Baha'i Faith. I'm not sure of that. But there's, there's a, there's a lot of just kind of there's a lot of just beautiful perspective about the divine. But nonetheless, we still get baggage with kind of, yeah, like you said, like common cultural paradigms. no. God. And so I really felt loaded with those, actually.


00:17:04:16 - 00:17:27:03

Chelan Harkin

And, and I had a really profound experience, though, at age 21, I, I did a pilgrimage by myself. I went to Israel and went to all these the holy places and the. Toward the end of this nine day pilgrimage, we went to Baha'u'llah, who's the founder of the. By faith. We went to his prison cell. He was in prison for like 40 years or something.


00:17:27:06 - 00:17:48:25

Chelan Harkin

And, I had this strange desire in my heart to be in that space alone. And I was kind of perplexed by that desire. And I was in a group of about 40 people, and and we would enter these spaces and we would have time to pray and meditate. And some people in the group would just like, pray for or meditate for like an hour and a half.


00:17:48:28 - 00:18:12:13

Chelan Harkin

They were, and I didn't have that attention span. So I thought, okay, there's no way I'm going to get this. But, but I had this desire in my heart and just had this very profound and strange and wild and transformational experience in that space. We all sat down and I closed my eyes and, heard no commotion or no sounds or anything, and it just felt like I closed my eyes for seconds.


00:18:12:13 - 00:18:40:26

Chelan Harkin

But I opened my eyes and everyone had left this prison cell, and the door was closed and I was. And it this it's like right on the sea. And it was this thrashing, stormy day and I was in this place of really feeling like I desperately needed a breakthrough and kind of authentic connection myself, or with God, or with all things, you know, and, and I sort of looked around and sort of took stock of like, wow, this is kind of wild.


00:18:40:28 - 00:19:10:08

Chelan Harkin

And I was just sort of the only way to describe it is I don't think I heard a voice, but it was more like I was filled with a voice that was like, louder and clearer than, you know, any voice I could have heard, like every cell was resonating with this that said, let us dance. And and it was this, you know, poetry has this quality of like it can just sort of it's kind of can be like energy work and it can just unlock understanding and unlock old blocks and allow things to flow again.


00:19:10:08 - 00:19:43:07

Chelan Harkin

And that was just precisely what I needed. And I, I took it as this message from the divine like, let us dance, let us have a dynamic, authentic relationship. Let this be a stumble and a whirl. Just be you and all of yourself and I just had this profound catharsis and then this found bliss. And I also, similarly to when I encountered Hafez poetry for the first time, I had this absolute knowing that I would, write a book one day called Let Us Dance.


00:19:44:19 - 00:20:17:15

Chelan Harkin

Yeah. And it was like that experience really unlocked this creative magic. And then really almost as soon as I returned home, not more than a week later, poetry just started to, to pour through me and it went from this process of, like, struggling to craft a poem and kind of being, I don't know, stressed and tense about it to just like, opening wide and just really having to write fast, as fast as it would, as it would come through.


00:20:17:17 - 00:20:32:28

Chelan Harkin

So anyway, that was a really powerful moment and experience in my life, and that felt like the beginning of this journey of, both accessing and expressing a much more, authentic way.


00:20:33:00 - 00:20:37:29

Kelly Deutsch

So between that time of kind of this unlocking and unleashing moment.


00:20:39:00 - 00:20:45:15

Kelly Deutsch

What happened between that and your book being published? I mean, was it a long and lengthy process or what did that look like?


00:20:45:21 - 00:21:08:15

Chelan Harkin

Yeah. Good question. It was it was about 11 years. So I had all of this poetry just flowing, and I had so much trust in it. It's this strange, like trust that just the words were just as they were supposed to be in it. I don't know, it just there was a a rightness to it that I really I didn't experience that in any other area of my life.


00:21:08:17 - 00:21:35:01

Chelan Harkin

Yeah. And, I felt incredible confidence in this poetry and, and, and it was my most powerful connection with the beyond. it was very. It's still very mysterious, to me how it works, but, but I was still very I had all, still all these hang ups about how other people would receive it. And I was really insecure about that because it was so precious to me.


00:21:36:19 - 00:22:05:21

Chelan Harkin

I was I was afraid of rejection and criticism and whatever, and from others and that somehow this thing. Yeah, that was most important, most primary, most essential and most beautiful somehow wouldn't translate or whatever. So I really, really kept it quite small. I would share my poems on online, you know, to my basically my mom and three of her friends or whatever were my gung ho supporters.


00:22:05:21 - 00:22:06:19

Kelly Deutsch

Yeah, yeah.


00:22:06:21 - 00:22:44:05

Chelan Harkin

Yeah. And then in 2020, really? Well, I, I connected actually with a dear friend like a very important person in my life, for some reason, like, and he, he is Sufi and he just, he and I have this way of, when we, when we connect, there's just, there's this incredible. So just unlocking of of essence and joy like I have that with him like, like I've never experienced with, with another and he just reached out to me and we just had some exchanges and it just activated this place of light inside of myself.


00:22:44:05 - 00:23:11:11

Chelan Harkin

And I had also I'd been really creatively, uninspired more than, than ever since this process had opened. And I just was kind of like, this place of something's got to change. And, not sure what that is. And, and, I just had a baby. It was like postpartum, and it was 20, 20, you know, all of these things, all of these things that had gotten me so uncomfortable that I was ready for a change.


00:23:11:11 - 00:23:32:01

Chelan Harkin

And then just connection with this, dear friend, I don't know, was like just the spark that I needed to kind of light this, this, like, dry tinder box and, and, and he also just deeply encouraged my, my poetry. And, so it was kind of like this. Oh, okay. You know, what the hell? Like it became very clear.


00:23:32:01 - 00:23:39:11

Chelan Harkin

It's time to to move forward publishing his book. Yeah.


00:23:39:13 - 00:23:51:20

Kelly Deutsch

Yes. And I, I understand there was, a connection with another big Hafez fan slash translator. Can you share a little bit of that story and how that came.


00:23:51:20 - 00:24:15:21

Chelan Harkin

About was definitely Daniel inspired. So yeah. So he, Daniel Lindsay has done renderings of Hafez poetry, so he doesn't actually translate them. They're not direct translations, but he's, you know, inspired by Hafez poetry. And he's an amazing poet in his own right. And he he's done a lot to really make offers like, superstar to the Western world.


00:24:15:24 - 00:24:41:15

Chelan Harkin

Anyway, so when I decided, okay, I'm going to publish my poetry, I had no connections in the marketing world. I, I had one friend who had successfully published or a distant acquaintance, really, who had published some books, but I had almost no contacts. so I was just anyway, so I, I bought a couple of Daniel's Daniel Hafez books because the format I remember the formatting was really pretty.


00:24:41:17 - 00:25:06:22

Chelan Harkin

So I thought, I'm just going to, you know, use something similar to that. So I bought his books and opened them up and just had this really strange, really powerful urge or impulse really to, do a prayer experiment, which is, you know, we get all kinds of stops all the time. And so many of them we just don't listen to or we just totally ignore, or at least I do.


00:25:06:25 - 00:25:47:12

Chelan Harkin

And, but this, like, I couldn't let it go. And the prayer experiment was to go on a nightly, walk and just chat with my favorite dead poet, Hafez, and ask her, first of all, just ask for inspiration. And so I did that. I did that every night. And, And, and poetry started flowing in such a torrential way that it's started to be, almost an inconvenience to my life, like I had I had committed to just really honoring, like when it felt like the muse was pouring to really prioritize that.


00:25:47:14 - 00:26:10:04

Chelan Harkin

And, I mean, it was coming so fast. Of course it was absurd. So about a third of these books, of these poems and this book came through and in these three weeks before publication, it was so nuts, Kelly, that then I thought, okay, something's happening here. now I'm going to ask my favorite dead poet for marketing help because I don't have I don't have any of that in this world yet.


00:26:10:06 - 00:26:38:19

Chelan Harkin

Yeah. And why not give it a try? And so I thought, you know, I don't want Hafez to feel overloaded. So let's get him a team. So I asked Khalil Gibran to join the team, a few other, you know, favorite dead authors, and and I just would go on these wacky prayer walks and just say, like, hey, you all, don't know if prayer works, but it doesn't hurt to ask, would you just, like, tap all the people in the spirit world who have any kind of marketing knowhow?


00:26:38:21 - 00:26:58:12

Chelan Harkin

And also just like tap every everyone in this plane to who can support me, I just deeply with all my heart want this book to to to go out there and to be received highly in the name of love and truth and liberation and and and joy. And it was just such a genuine prayer and, so fun to say.


00:26:58:15 - 00:27:21:16

Chelan Harkin

And I felt, yeah, half, half just kind of kooky saying it, but, you know, whatever. And so anyways, so then three weeks though, into this publishing journey, I had an email in my inbox from Daniel Ski. Like right out of nowhere saying shilan hi, I don't know if you know who I am, but I'm Daniel Dembski.


00:27:21:18 - 00:27:21:28

Kelly Deutsch

And.


00:27:22:22 - 00:27:24:00

Chelan Harkin

and he said in the fan.


00:27:24:00 - 00:27:25:00

Kelly Deutsch

Girling.


00:27:25:03 - 00:27:53:28

Chelan Harkin

I was you have no idea. So I'm like and and he said, yeah, I found your book. Congratulations. And he said, it's actually weird that I reached out to you, Shilan, because I'm kind of a reclusive poet, and I rarely reach out to anybody but felt the nudge. And, so I just responded to him in the most unfiltered way, just, oh, my effing God, are you serious?


00:27:53:28 - 00:28:14:19

Chelan Harkin

Daniel? And I just told him the whole story. The whole story. Like I sent it to him unedited. I was. So it was the most surreal experience. Really. Oh so good. I mean, truly had no, like, no almost no poetic exposure before this. My primary poetic inspiration, who I'd been like, I'd been praying to our shared muse like it was nuts.


00:28:14:21 - 00:28:31:06

Chelan Harkin

And, and then Daniel wrote back to me and said, okay, well, that's clearly why I reached out to you. And he said. And he said, I've never suggested this either with someone that I haven't known quite well, but I think you and I should wade into publishing a book together.


00:28:31:08 - 00:28:33:25

Kelly Deutsch

Oh, my.


00:28:33:27 - 00:28:55:21

Chelan Harkin

Oh my God. And that was just the most insane moment of my life. And. Yeah, and then he wrote the foreword for my first book, and it's just endorsed me with his incredible poetic praise to the major publishing houses of the world. And, I mean, it's just been crazy. It's been an unbelievable.


00:28:55:24 - 00:29:12:25

Kelly Deutsch

That's remarkable. But I'm but I'm also so glad because there's such great, I don't know, just rich tidbits, you know, hidden in, in every poem, you know, and so I, I really do hope that it finds a very wide audience.


00:29:12:27 - 00:29:15:08

Chelan Harkin

Thank you. Thank you'd.


00:29:15:10 - 00:29:19:12

Kelly Deutsch

I'm sure this is a difficult question, but do you have a current favorite poem?


00:29:19:15 - 00:29:56:22

Chelan Harkin

Oh, well, there are two that are particularly meaningful to me. I don't know that I could choose between them. Okay. the first, can I just give you a historical novel? So the first is called say wow. Okay. And this is the poem that was my first poem that just poured through me after grants in Israel. And, so it's feels like a first love and, and it also I had another kind of Excel experiment that I, that I did before this poem came through, and it was to allow myself to write a bad poem every day for three days.


00:29:56:24 - 00:30:16:12

Chelan Harkin

And I just said, I'm going to give myself an hour, I'm just going to let come what comes, and I'm going to share it. And and giving myself that permission kind of like integrating myself judgments into my process, rather than just resisting them and figuring that I would write a bad poem was also, I think, a big piece in this, this unlocking.


00:30:16:15 - 00:30:29:29

Chelan Harkin

So maybe I'll, I would you like to hear it? Please share. So this is I wrote this when I was 21 and it changed in a lasting way. My whole expressive, poetic, expressive paradigm.


00:30:30:01 - 00:30:32:01

Kelly Deutsch

Yeah.


00:30:32:03 - 00:31:20:00

Chelan Harkin

Say well, each day before our surroundings become flat with familiarity and the shapes of our lives click into place, dimensionless and average as Tetris cubes before hunger knocks from our bellies like a cantankerous old man. And the duties of the day stack up like dishes and the architecture of our basic needs. Commissions all thoughts to construct the four door sedan of safety before gravity clings to our skin like a cumbersome parasite, and the colored dust of dreams sweeps itself, obscure in the vacuum of reason.


00:31:20:03 - 00:31:58:11

Chelan Harkin

Each morning, before we rustle the world and our heart into into the shape of our brain, look around and say, wow, feed yourself fire. Scoop up the day entire like a planet sized bouquet of marvels sent by the universe directly into your arms and say, wow! Break yourself down into the basic components of primitive and let the crescendo of each moment carbonate every capillary and say, wow.


00:31:58:14 - 00:32:19:00

Chelan Harkin

Yes, before our poems become calloused with revision, let them shriek off the page of spontaneity. And before our metaphors get too regular, let the sun stay. A conflagration of homing pigeons that fights through fire each day to find us.


00:32:20:03 - 00:32:22:18

Kelly Deutsch

yummy,


00:32:22:21 - 00:32:24:05

Chelan Harkin

Wonderful thing.


00:32:24:05 - 00:32:29:06

Kelly Deutsch

Love I like I feel that in my bones. Like feeling.


00:32:29:08 - 00:32:30:05

Chelan Harkin

Fire.


00:32:30:07 - 00:32:51:18

Kelly Deutsch

I love that thing made me think of, I don't know if you've ever heard the the story. There's, a little tale told of one of the Desert Fathers. Those early hermits. And, the first few centuries. And, someone went to this, like, holy hermit, you know, and was like, I'm doing, you know, my spiritual practices.


00:32:51:18 - 00:33:12:11

Kelly Deutsch

I'm fasting. I'm doing all of these disciplines, you know, like what? What else must I do, you know, in order to achieve, like the heights of, you know, spiritual union and apparently this, this arbor, this desert. Father turned to him and his hands turned into ten living flames. And he's like, you must become all fire. I was like.


00:33:12:13 - 00:33:13:14

Chelan Harkin

Yes.


00:33:13:16 - 00:33:31:11

Kelly Deutsch

This is like the best ever, you know? But that that image of just like, I don't know, it's it's desire, it's longing, it's passion, it's it's eros. And I always really what I think that kind of divine energy is and I love, I love how well you express it.


00:33:31:14 - 00:33:34:24

Chelan Harkin

Thank you so much, Kelly. Yes. Thank you.


00:33:35:01 - 00:33:55:15

Kelly Deutsch

Yes, absolutely. I'm curious. Like, these poems have so much like richness and depth to them. Where does does do you have particular points of inspiration in life or is it literally just like it's pouring through me and I'm just taking notes?


00:33:55:17 - 00:33:58:01

Chelan Harkin

Yeah, it's pretty much that.


00:33:58:04 - 00:33:59:12

Kelly Deutsch

That's a remarkable.


00:33:59:15 - 00:34:18:28

Chelan Harkin

Reminder that I yeah, it really is pretty much that. But it's not. Yeah. And and again though it doesn't feel like it's just it's random like the, the my main work I suppose as a poet it's not, it's not the traditional, you know, I'm going to sit down at this time. I'm going to just make something happen, even if I'm not inspired.


00:34:18:28 - 00:34:48:22

Chelan Harkin

It's it's really away from the, the writing and it is just. It's just this deep kind of, emotional, energetic work of, of of acceptance and then and moving energy through and finding that. Yeah, that energy just has somehow inspiration and information within it, which is amazing. And and then it just sort of comes when it comes when it does, it sort of feels like a wild river.


00:34:49:18 - 00:34:54:29

Kelly Deutsch

yeah. I was going to say, do you, do you go through dry spells other times where like, I just can't write.


00:34:55:01 - 00:35:21:14

Chelan Harkin

Yeah. well, yes, definitely. So before, before this publishing breakthrough, like I said, that was really two years of just a it was a drought. It was a creative drought. And it was so God, it was uncomfortable. But the truth is, since since I published these books, it's been such. Whoops, there we go. it's been such an ongoing process of inner.


00:35:21:21 - 00:35:53:25

Chelan Harkin

It's been a transformational journey. Absolutely. So I, I feel like in my theory is that, yeah, inspiration and really just change and, and growth are kind of like there's a friction almost maybe in growth or there's an openness really in growth that it creates an inner environment that can kind of invite inspiration. So it has it. I feel that actually it's just been really full on, in these last almost two years now.


00:35:54:21 - 00:35:58:07

Chelan Harkin

because of that. Yeah. Yeah.


00:35:58:09 - 00:36:00:07

Kelly Deutsch

What a gift.


00:36:00:09 - 00:36:05:29

Chelan Harkin

And a real it's been an incredible gift. It's an honor and gift. Yeah.


00:36:06:01 - 00:36:11:03

Kelly Deutsch

How have you grown and changed personally as a result of this experience.


00:36:11:05 - 00:36:17:12

Chelan Harkin

Oh such a good question. Well so I said that I


00:36:17:14 - 00:36:45:17

Chelan Harkin

I was afraid to share my poetry with people in a pretty big way, for 11 years, and I. And I was, I just felt a lot more safe hiding this, this most kind of precious and true part of myself. And really, that had been a lifelong, a lifelong pattern. As someone so growing up in the Baha'i Faith in a small town, mostly Christian, I just felt I felt super weird.


00:36:45:17 - 00:37:15:13

Chelan Harkin

And I had, kind of a interesting combo of both real love and gratitude for all that I had received from being exposed to, you know, the Baha'i teachings and Baha'i community. But also, I was just super ashamed to be weird and different. And and then also just as a very I just have highly sensitive person, but also with like a powerful keen sense of perception, a powerful like truth and voice.


00:37:15:13 - 00:37:45:02

Chelan Harkin

Like I already kind of felt like an outsider on those levels. And so I just had this way of. Well, I mean, the most primary level, I, I had a pattern of really repressing my, my truth and my voice, and I was afraid that it would be somehow confrontational to society's comforts or my family's comforts or whatever. And so I was afraid that it was a liability more than an asset.


00:37:45:29 - 00:38:09:05

Chelan Harkin

and so, so it actually so bringing forth these books, it was it was so much more than just I just published my books. It was so much more than that. It was really like the biggest self claiming of my life and the biggest risk and experiment of, of my life. It was like, I don't know, was like a major mystical coming out.


00:38:09:05 - 00:38:34:24

Chelan Harkin

It's fixed variance. Like, yeah. Is it an experience of really being seen, in these ways? Never allowed before. And so it changed. It's changed everything. It's, and I found I feel like I'm really have found and I'm finding my, my tribe and these enormous people that really resonate are having such deeper and more meaningful connections. Yeah.


00:38:34:27 - 00:39:17:11

Chelan Harkin

And. And because this was such a foundational part of myself, there's just no way to bring that up and forward and out without every other structure rearranging and and releasing. So. Yeah, I feel that truly everything has changed. And I've also really aligned with, you know what I, what I feel I'm most here to give hmhm world and my sacred service and, and before that, I felt pretty disoriented and dissatisfied about really a sense of a sense of purpose.


00:39:17:13 - 00:39:19:00

Chelan Harkin

So,


00:39:19:03 - 00:39:40:06

Kelly Deutsch

Yeah. Yes. It's interesting how many. I feel like a lot of our listeners have either gone through or are potentially scared of their own spiritual coming out. We have a lot of folks who grew up in like, a more, you know, fundamentalist form of like, Christianity or something. You know, that was very kind of rigid in some ways.


00:39:40:06 - 00:40:04:25

Kelly Deutsch

And, when you discover this, this field, you know, sometimes I like to talk about it as Rumi's field, you know, like out in that field beyond right and wrong, like, I'll meet you there, you know, and when when we hang out there like everybody else who's, you know, still within the paddock, and they're nice, comfortable fences, I mean, that's, that's somehow threatening to them that they feel like it's dangerous, you know, and you're like.


00:40:04:25 - 00:40:08:13

Kelly Deutsch

But it's so spacious out here. I really kind of exciting.


00:40:08:15 - 00:40:10:07

Chelan Harkin

Right? When you can.


00:40:10:07 - 00:40:24:07

Kelly Deutsch

Fully embrace it and find other people out there. Like you said, find a tribe. Oh, man, that's like the most thrilling thing in the world. I mean, most of the time we just feel really alone because all of a sudden you're on the outside of that fence, like, what if I.


00:40:24:07 - 00:40:52:27

Chelan Harkin

Died? Like what? Oh, yes, yes, yes. It's the most thrilling, wonderful, wonderful gift to that. Well, to move beyond those confines and and like you said, see that it's okay out here. It's not only okay, it's so much better. It's so much more comfortable and wonderful and spacious and then others who can resonate with you there is. So it's just the most beautiful thing.


00:40:52:29 - 00:41:02:16

Kelly Deutsch

Yes, it really is. I love how much it's, the space is just blossoming. And how many people are finding these, these different wisdom traditions.


00:41:02:19 - 00:41:04:27

Chelan Harkin

Same. Yes.


00:41:04:29 - 00:41:12:05

Kelly Deutsch

But if you had to speak to, let's say, your 20 year old self.


00:41:13:07 - 00:41:23:15

Kelly Deutsch

You know, before this kind of opening happened and like Israel and the pilgrimage and all of that, what what kind of advice do you think you'd give her?


00:41:23:18 - 00:42:03:27

Chelan Harkin

Oh, I would absolutely affirm her. My, my, my power and gifts in my in my visibility and, what I think essential medicine. is there. And I would affirm how hard it is to navigate the world as a sensitive person. And, and how brave that is. And I would. But yeah, I would, I would affirm that more, more than.


00:42:03:29 - 00:42:07:20

Chelan Harkin

More than anything. Yeah.


00:42:07:23 - 00:42:08:28

Kelly Deutsch

Yes.


00:42:09:00 - 00:42:32:29

Chelan Harkin

And I would tell her that the root of all the, of all behaviors that we can judge ourselves for that feel limited and you know, are the root of all these whatever dysfunctional behaviors that we can get up to. There's innocence of the root of all of you. Yeah. Yeah.


00:42:33:01 - 00:42:54:02

Kelly Deutsch

That's and that's interesting. I just resonate with with both of those because I feel like two major life lessons for me were learning about what it means to be a highly sensitive person and to have like a sensitive nervous system and just what that means for your own, your own body, your experience in the world, your expectations of other people.


00:42:54:02 - 00:43:04:25

Kelly Deutsch

You know, like trying to, you know, having like vulnerability, hangovers, like trying to share with somebody who just, you know, isn't able to receive on the level of depth that I'm so hungry for you know, like that whole thing.


00:43:05:01 - 00:43:07:05

Chelan Harkin

So, Exactly. Yeah.


00:43:07:05 - 00:43:32:03

Kelly Deutsch

Yeah. So like, that whole world has been incredibly helpful. And then also just everything in, like, psychological emotional maturity and learning what, what trauma is and all of our, our inner world or parts that are trying so desperately just to help us, you know, right. Yeah. You know, it's like don't don't demonize that, but it's trying to help.


00:43:32:03 - 00:43:39:17

Kelly Deutsch

So it's it might be done in a really imperfect way, but there's something good happening under there.


00:43:39:19 - 00:43:42:04

Chelan Harkin

Really. Exactly.


00:43:42:07 - 00:43:51:02

Kelly Deutsch

Yes. Yes, yes. So I completely understand and resonate, with a lot of, a lot of that life wisdom.


00:43:51:29 - 00:43:53:14

Chelan Harkin

thank you for.


00:43:53:16 - 00:44:06:25

Kelly Deutsch

Wonderful. Well, we have just a couple of minutes left. Is there anything, any bits of wisdom or pieces that you that we haven't talked about yet or any poems that you would like to share with our audience?


00:44:06:27 - 00:44:35:18

Chelan Harkin

Well, I would love to share a poem and then also just quickly rattle off a couple of upcoming things that I'm so excited about, so well. So Daniel and I are collaborating on a book. This adorable, playful, sweet book. It's going to be called Two Zucchini Dancing, and it's a book of haiku, Sweet haiku from the kitchen, and it's illustrated and it's and there's going to be a couple of recipes of mine in Daniel's in this book, and it is going to be so sweet.


00:44:35:25 - 00:45:00:17

Chelan Harkin

So that is also, I just, in a few days, really, it'll release this incredible, beautiful book with this extraordinary sacred collage artist. And she's taking snippets of my poetry that she was inspired by and just creates these really ethereal, exquisite, almost like mandala collages with them just rocked my world. So that's it's called taste the Sky and that will be available soon.


00:45:00:19 - 00:45:20:23

Chelan Harkin

Also, you can buy my books if you'd like to. Susceptible to light and let us dance the Stumble and Whirl with the Beloved on Amazon. Or you can get signed copies from my local Waconia bookstore and I would love. I love to stay connected with people if this spoke to you and you can find me on Facebook a following, you just click follow and then we'll stay connected.


00:45:20:23 - 00:45:50:27

Chelan Harkin

That would be such a joy. And what? There's actually one more book that's coming out too. I'm hosting this, really special poetry space with, aspiring, poets who who want to learn about the publishing process. And it's a ten week course and we I just it's all about encouragement of the of their poetry and then walking them through every step of the publishing and marketing process and the book together at the end.


00:45:50:27 - 00:46:04:19

Chelan Harkin

And I market it to my audience, and they get all this exposure, and it's been magical. So that will be called Bouquet of Stars. And that's coming soon too. So check that out and then can I end with the poem? Kelly.


00:46:04:21 - 00:46:06:03

Kelly Deutsch

Yes, I would love that.


00:46:06:05 - 00:46:10:20

Chelan Harkin

Thank you so much. This has been such a such a joy. I don't want it to end.


00:46:10:23 - 00:46:13:09

Kelly Deutsch

I agree.


00:46:13:12 - 00:46:37:20

Chelan Harkin

I feel like we're just getting started here. Kelly. So this poem is called The Worst Thing. And this one I put out on Facebook maybe a day before I published this book. And, really hesitated to publish it because it makes assertions about God. And I kind of wondered, do I have that the right to do that? But this is quite viral and has been the source that has has opened so many doors.


00:46:37:20 - 00:47:18:27

Chelan Harkin

So the worst thing, the worst thing we ever did was put God in the sky out of reach, pulling the divinity from the leaf, sifting out the holy from our bones, insisting God isn't bursting, has ailment through everything, we've made a hard commitment to see as ordinary, stripping the sacred from everywhere to put in a cloud man elsewhere, crying closeness from your heart.


00:47:18:29 - 00:47:53:11

Chelan Harkin

The worst thing we ever did was take the dance and the song out of prayer. Made it sit up straight and cross its legs, removed it of rejoicing, wiped clean its hips, sway its questions, its ecstatic yowl, its tears. The worst thing we ever did is pretend God isn't the easiest thing in this universe, available to every soul, in every breath.


00:47:55:15 - 00:48:26:07

Kelly Deutsch

Marvelous. Thank you. I fully support this vision of the world with the sacred in everything, and I don't think anyone could have put it quite so poetically. Thank you for sharing that. That was marvelous, and I hope that we can all recover that sense of not just this like reverential, sacred, but the the mischievous sacred that winks at us from all things, as.


00:48:26:08 - 00:48:31:11

Chelan Harkin

Oh, hallelujah to that. Yes. Thank you so much.


00:48:31:14 - 00:48:43:07

Kelly Deutsch

Thank you. And this was delightful. I think everyone listening. Please do check out Shannon's work, either on Facebook or you can check out her website. It's just Jalandhar CNN.com, right?


00:48:43:09 - 00:48:50:20

Chelan Harkin

Yeah, there's a new website coming in a few days, but for now. Yep, yep. Thank you. Thank you so much. Such a pleasure.


00:48:50:24 - 00:48:51:20

Kelly Deutsch

Absolutely. And.



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